Curse

Rathcail · Sep 13, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Really? Because I disctinctly recall usually having a big star of where to go next.

There's never a star to follow after finishing a mission and before picking up the primary quest. Not even in Prophecies.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

It would help to always have a Primary Quest to point you in the right direction. Why would anyone object to this?

Which is most likely why they conveniently put the primary quests at the same location you arrive after missions.

Thallandor · Sep 13, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

/not signed for locked gates.

Anet if you are gonna put locked gates into Nightfall please tell us now and save us having to buy the same crap again to find out.

Mordakai · Sep 13, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rathcail

There's never a star to follow after finishing a mission and before picking up the primary quest. Not even in Prophecies.

LOL! Wow, played this game for over a year and never noticed that. To be fair, I usually click on every exclamation point I see, but whatever reason, I missed Jamei the first time. Oh, well. There goes one point.

But it does give me another reason to complain: Factions has more wrap around then Prophecy. Very Rarely do you have to go back to an area in Prophecy in order to continue the Main Story.

Factions is all about going to one area, going back, going to another area, going back again. I agree, it's one reason they "had" to put in some gates (like Emperor's Palace gate), but I also think it was bad design.

It's just another reason Factions feels smaller than Prophecy, and feels more repetitive. (And another reason I hope Nightfall has a totally different layout and mission structure).

Loviatar · Sep 13, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Factions is all about going to one area, going back, going to another area, going back again. ).

*passing the buck* for at least half the quests.

if they did that i would do a nasty

Kakumei · Sep 13, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

It would help to always have a Primary Quest to point you in the right direction. Why would anyone object to this?

Prophecies certainly didn't have a primary quest always pointing you in the right direction; I missed The Wilds and Bloodstone Fen entirely my first playthrough, with me none the wiser that they ever existed.

I greatly greatly prefer forced linearity; though I understand why certain types of people dislike it, I can't stand Oblivion or Morrowind for that exact reason. I don't have time or will to hug every wall and try every single direction.

Rathcail · Sep 13, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Prophecies certainly didn't have a primary quest always pointing you in the right direction; I missed The Wilds and Bloodstone Fen entirely my first playthrough, with me none the wiser that they ever existed.

The primary quest from Druid's Overlook ends in The Wilds outpost, where you get the reward from it. But they had that stupid message quest in Druid's that takes you to Quarrel Falls, where you wouldn't normally end up until after Bloodstone.

Loviatar · Sep 13, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

I greatly greatly prefer forced linearity; though I understand why certain types of people dislike it, I can't stand Oblivion or Morrowind for that exact reason. I don't have time or will to hug every wall and try every single direction.

you are too young to know what a Heathkit was but the forced item check is like that.

you might as well have a step by step guide in front of you.

done this?...........check it of go to next step

note be sure to do this quest now or it will be harder later.......check

done stepxxxxx?.........do it now.

that is mind numbing.

i said i would support ANET through chapter 4 for the chapter 1 fun/value but that does not mean i will force myself to play something i dont like.

hopefully Nightfall will make up for the drastic (my opinion only) shortcomings/let down of Factions which i dont play

Knightsaber Sith · Sep 13, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

If anyone has played through Factions with more than one character they would NOT want those cursed locked gates!!!!

I played all the way through Factions with four charaters and I want gates!

Dougal Kronik · Sep 13, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Knightsaber, I think you are unique in your desire!

bilateralrope · Sep 13, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildi

I hope there will be no locked gates just some very strong enemys to keep players back.

Like lornars pass ?

That doesn't stop lvl 3s in droknars forge though.

Though the best solution may be to find a mix of enemies that makes the area require several people to pass it.

Kakumei · Sep 13, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rathcail

The primary quest from Druid's Overlook ends in The Wilds outpost, where you get the reward from it. But they had that stupid message quest in Druid's that takes you to Quarrel Falls, where you wouldn't normally end up until after Bloodstone.

This is probably what confused me; my first time through, I likely just picked that quest as the one to do.

Quote:

you might as well have a step by step guide in front of you.

This is what I want, as this is what Factions had. What do I need to do now? Why, here's a clearly-labeled Primary Quest that tells me in no uncertain terms what I have to do next if I want to progress through the storyline.

People seem to misunderstand my viewpoint, and what I'm saying. I am arguing in favor of gates, yes, because I prefer that style of gameplay. But it's honestly not that big a deal either way. If Nightfall has gates, yay! If Nightfall is as open-ended as Prophecies, that's fine too. I'll just have to pay closer attention to my quest log and those big green exclamation points.

Theus · Sep 13, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I don't see a problem with gates.If you wanted to do all of your exploring there were a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOton of side quests you could do in the major cities.

And I've brought Five characters through the game.Gates are no problem.Getting 10k Kurzick faction without AB on the otherhand..is a dirty rotten sonovabitch.

Loviatar · Sep 13, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

I don't see a problem with gates.If you wanted to do all of your exploring there were a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOton of side quests you could do in the major cities.
.

could you get to the nice explorable areas OUTSIDE those miserable cities without doing locked gate missions?

who cares about side quests in those grubby cities that simply send you back and forth like passing the buck

The Herbalizer · Sep 13, 2006, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Nothing beats exploring and sadly factions prevented that

Pepsi Jedi · Sep 13, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I think there is a BIT of correctness to the previous statement about the "Strictly PVE players not caring as much about gates"

As the JOURNY is part of the fun. Going though the game in the order it was ment to be played lays out the story the way it was written.

Sure I can pick up a book. Read a chapter, skip to the last chapter, read it, know how it ends and go back to read all the middle stuff, but that takes away from it a bit.

I mean how good would... The 6th sense be if somone whispered the "trick" to it right as you sat down? Wouldn't you want to pound that guy?

Sure. Some people want the "ABILITY" to make that choice for themselves. Meh. That doesn't bother me.

Much as gates don't bother me. I do the game in order and play though as it's layed out. Hince the gates are never really an issue. I have tons of fun.

Will it kill me if OTHERS can skip ahead or to the end? Nope. That won't bother me either, as I'm not one to do it.

Some people get run to Droks. Some don't. If I don't want to. I don't pay my 2 K for the run.

Does it kill me? Nope. Does it kill me others do it? Nope.

So... in the end.. I can say either way it won't bother me.

I sort of like the idea of having to do A B and C before getting to D.

But it won't kill me if some guy goes to D then Q then Z. Which ever floats your boat.

Cjlr · Sep 13, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I know! I know!

Gates could be...

... account wide!

Everybody wins!

Malice Black · Sep 13, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Like lornars pass ?

That doesn't stop lvl 3s in droknars forge though.

Though the best solution may be to find a mix of enemies that makes the area require several people to pass it.

I you want to make an area impossible to run just add mass amounts of mesmers groups with the odd water spiker group..ice imps ftw! runnings hard when you cant move and you're getting pounded on all sides

NeoSaber · Sep 14, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Seriously, there is no justifiable reason to have gates. None.

Unfortunately, there is one reason. Compressed, overlapping terrain layout. I worry Nightfall will suffer this same problem since it was 6 months into development by the time Factions came out and people started to voice their... displeasure... at the locked gate system.

Think of what would happen if most gates in Factions were removed. A player could arrive at Kaineng Center, wander outside, find the skyway, and end up at Senji's Corner or further without ever noticing Vizunah Square or Nahpui Quarter. This problem doesn't exist in Prophecies because the terrain layout is such that large, often hard (for the intended level) explorable areas separate missions. If you want to skip the Great Northern Wall, it's a long walk to Fort Ranik. If you want to skip the jungle, its a long walk from Lion's Arch to ToA to Sanctum Cay. The terrain size and layout acted as the inhibiting force to steer new players around.

In Factions, the compressed, overlapped terrain caused a situation where people could wander around and end up 3 missions ahead of where they should be, with less effort than it would take to get to the mission they should be at. The locked gates, in my opinion at least, are a sympton of this design error. In a way they also disguise another problem I have with Cantha's layout. There is nothing to explore. There is no Mineral Springs, or Anvil Rock. There are no outposts like Fisherman's Haven or Marhan's Grotto. There's no where off the beaten path to explore, with the small exception of two challenge missions near the end of the game. It wouldn't matter if ArenaNet opened the locked gates in Factions, because there's no where to go anyway.

I hope Nightfall will be designed with Tyria's layout as a template instead of the one used in Cantha. Tyria's layout gave freedom and exploration, while for the most part (they goofed a little with quests at Druid's Overlook) preserving a linear mission layout that helps new players move through the game. Also, Tyria's layout included extra areas that can be fun to explore, without being required. I'm worried though that Elona's terrain design may have been set in stone before Factions released and it might suffer the same faulty premise.

Malice Black · Sep 14, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

hmm interesting post..never considered that, i dont mind having a bit of a trek to get to a certain area as long as they include a few mobs and a couple chests im happy.

Fedex missions make me depressed then i drink more..qwerty stamped on your forehead anyone

Hand of Ruin · Sep 14, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

I hope they still have them...

Having open portals everywhere only ecourages people to hirer a runner, hirer a powerleveler, and then use bots to farm high-end areas while completely bypassing the normal game...

Just look at the sitatuation at droks.

Locked Gates FTW... filters out lazy noobs/cheaters.